Interview with Mrs Doreen Chan and Ms Diana Ng

1. Mrs Chan, you were the principal of GMGS for 4 years, from 1979-1983, and then continued as principal when the school went co-ed from 1984 to 1997.

What was the school like when it was a girls-only school? This is a question that we all ask ourselves daily.

Doreen Chan:

When I first came to school, I found that it was very small. The building was a little bit shabby, and in the auditorium, some glass in the windowpanes were missing. The tuckshop was just a wooden shed, and the benches were benches and not chairs. Long benches, long tables. Very few food stalls were at the tuck shop.

Diana Ng:

I must mention one thing – when there was a sandstorm, the tuckshop got it. Because it was open air and on the ground floor. Next to the tuckshop was Ameen, the caretaker, and his family lived there. And the canteen was actually quite susceptible to wind and rain.

Doreen Chan:

It’s true.

Diana Ng:

It was quite open in that sense, no sides. It was quite basic.

2. What was the school like, as a girls school? What were the girls like? That is something we have no sense of, as we have always known it as a co-ed school.

Doreen Chan:

The girls had a different work attitude from the boys. They were hardworking and serious and they were very creative in their own way. When you give an assignment, they come up with a lot of ideas. I think Mrs Diana Ng’s artwork helped a lot. Because when they presented worksheets or anything, they were very colourful. The colours combined very well. Then I knew it was Diana’s work. She had drilled them. Even the lettering was nice. The last few weeks I’d been looking at the old albums and the farewell cards that the children did for me individually, I can see those painstaking, careful details. Unlike the boys. Boys, you can use the word ‘chin chai’ to describe them. [laughs] As long as they can go, finish and go and play, you know? That is the difference.

3. That was their priority, get it done and then they can go.

Diana Ng:

We were very small. We were so small, we only had one class, per level. One class each of sec 1, 2, 3, and 4s. But we knew every single child so well.

Doreen Chan:

We knew them by name.

Diana Ng:

Yes, it was like, one big family. And every recess, Mrs Chan would get some kids over to her office, to drink Milo… drink milk. Some were a bit undernourished. The fact that the school was not so big meant that a lot of individual attention was given to kids. We sort of knew them very well.

Doreen Chan:

The school servant used to make a big tub of milk.  We got the milk powder from UCs, an American charity organisation. They sent big bags of milk to schools. So we took some and we made them for the children. And we bought Milo and we made it for the children. So they came in the morning, queued up to drink. Those who didn’t want to drink, Sagit would bring them to the principal’s office where they would have to stand and drink it. Her relationship with them was that between a mother and child.

4. So the duty of care was very very emphasised.

Diana Ng:

Yes, I think that was very evident in a smaller school. We had one home ec room, we didn’t have an art room, so the classroom was used. We had a science lab. But the girls… to this day I still keep in touch with many of them, and many of them are in their fifties. Some are grandmothers… There was Zarena Shah – I taught her daughter, and then her daughter is married and has a little boy. So I’m on Facebook with her. It’s so fascinating you know when you go back and… Last week one girl called me up and said – I want to meet up with you, she said. I’m now a lecturer, an art lecturer at the Polytechnic, and I want to come and catch up with you as it’s been a long time, she says. You don’t know it but you inspired me. Phylia Poh Li Lian is another one, doing art big time. She is running her own company and doing the art for Little India with her sister. Besides Little India, I think they are involved in quite a number of productions, and Chingay, and she is married to a Chinese professional dancer. She’s a very good costume designer, Poh Li Lian… a very good art student at the time. So was Jeff Cheong, who came last month? He was an unusual boy who did art and D&T at the same time. He is doing exceptionally well. He was one of the earlier batches of boys. Maybe 86 or 87. But the girls were so nice.

Doreen Chan:

They were very thoughtful.

5. How different was it after the transition? Any interesting stories to share about the transition and perhaps the first few batches of boys that you had?

Diana Ng:

Yes, the first batch, remember? Very good batch.

Doreen Chan:

It was a difficult time. They were good and no good. Those who came from certain families with strict and disciplined parents behaved very well. Then there were some who were in charge of their own lives. They joined gangs, in the void decks, and they were made use of by big brothers – as they are called in Chinese. They were made to steal, provide this and that. So we had a bit of trouble… there was this boy who was sent over by a police car one or two times. But he turned out okay.

Diana Ng:

Yes, he turned out good. You see, at the end of the day, Mrs Chan spent so much time with the naughty ones… I mean, we threatened them, we had police cars coming in, and of course, all this was unrecorded, but that frightened them a bit. But they all turned out well! They all came back and said thank you to her!

6. What made them turn around?

Doreen Chan:

Constant care and strict discipline since day one. They wanted strict discipline. They appreciated Wilfred Chia very much because Wilfred came from ACS. He was the discipline master. I took him in because he had been dealing with boys for years, so he would know what to do with our first two batches because we were all used to girls. I was from Paya Lebar Girls’ School, and I was there for thirteen years. I was 3 years in Melaka, my hometown, also girls, Methodist Girls School. So when I came here, I was a little apprehensive because of the name ‘Geylang’. Geylang was famous for a certain thing, and gangsterism, and we were frightened they would come in. And truly they came in, even some girls came in with tattoos with red flowers, they sat in the canteen, and we knew their gang. So we watched. We walked up and down, walked up and down, alerted the police. We would ask them to drive into the school, no need to stop, just drive through. The presence of them frightened these students a bit. I know there was this one group – what was the name of the boy? – 396 gang. A very small boy, sec 1. He was badly made use of. We wanted to expel him. But he was very sorry, so we didn’t expel him. We befriended him, so in the end, it was ok.

Diana Ng:

The boys were quite a fresh change for us. It was very exciting. In 1984, we had 6 classes of sec 1s, and so many were boys! More than half! But I tell you we were very encouraged. That batch – some are in the Ministry working now, like Adrian Tan, who is a high flyer already. The first batch made a big impression on us, and we felt that we did the right thing in moving and taking in the boys.

7. I think it is inspiring, to know a little bit about these stories. Despite the fact that they were challenging, there were definitely gems in the cohort as well. We always say that it is God’s school, and there is a reason why they are in our school. Any ideas about that? Any remarks about the fact that this is indeed God’s school, and we are a chosen school to be in Geylang, and we are a school with a purpose? What do you think about that?

Diana Ng:

You remember they asked us to move to Bishan, and you said no?

Doreen Chan:

We didn’t want to go. It was around 82 or 83.

Diana Ng:

She say you cannot call it Geylang any more! Right? We didn’t want to change the name. We were determined to remain as Geylang Methodist School. That’s where the mission is, the core group that started it, all from that church. We absorbed the Chinese staff.

Doreen Chan:

In the morning it was Geylang MGS and in the afternoon it was Geylang Methodist Chinese Primary.

Diana Ng:

So all of us came over, and then we broke up into two schools, you know? Many of the staff at the Chinese school came to join us.

Doreen Chan:

We absorbed all of them because they were asked to close.

Diana Ng:

We were so small, you cannot imagine how small we were. We used to sit by the roadside, literally almost at the roadside, marking books. If you look through some of the old photographs, you’ll see us, you know, marking books. The staff, 4 or 5 of us, marking. We were that small.

8. So in your time here, you oversaw one major school renovation. Can you tell us about that? How was it different? How was the façade of the school different? The size, the number of rooms perhaps? Before and after? Tell us about the basement.

Diana Ng:

Terry Chan, the architect and his wife, did the basement for us. It was the rifle range. Actually, we didn’t have any major renovation, the basement was the only thing we did, the major renovation was during Lim Yan Hock’s time.

Doreen Chan:

The additional block was during Marion Tan’s time. The basement was an air rifle range, for the uninformed groups. We found that for a long time, it wasn’t used. They didn’t go in there, they went to the headquarters for shooting. So, Susan Tan’s time – she came as a teacher trainee, and I asked her to write to the Ministry saying that we would like to use this place as an assembly hall, because there were not enough spaces on the second floor for the whole school, so they wrote to us and gave us permission. But we must keep those stands, under lock and key. The rifles and targets must be kept in lock and key. Back then we had NPCC, we had BB. NPCC wanted to go to headquarters where there were better facilities. Here, every time they wanted to take the rifle, they must see the principal, and I must open the safe… There were 2 keys to the safe, and then they had to sign out, and when they returned it they must sign in as well. So, it was cumbersome, and they would rather go there. And it was an experience for the children to ride the bus to go there. It was more like an outing for them.

9. So where the renovation is concerned – it was only the basement.

Diana Ng:

We moved to the old site of Victoria school. We really had to move as the staff room was too small. That was during Mr Lim’s time and was a big renovation.

Doreen Chan:

We went to see the school with Eric Chan because he was also in Geylang.

Actually, how I came to know this school, it was one engineer lady who did the MRT work. One day she visited me in my room and said, “Do you know that the MRT is coming nearby, and we are building a school for you?”  And I said no, what for I move? I’m already so comfortable. After raising funds for Paya Lebar and GM, it was very tiring you know? I was not from Paya Lebar, neither was I from Geylang, I was from Melaka. So it was very tiring to get money. Not a hundred thousand – millions! It was very difficult to get money. We didn’t know many people then. Of course, we knew all the market people, but how much can the market people give you?

Diana Ng:

Fundraising was a big, big chore, a real headache.

Doreen Chan:

So we went to them, the market people, and they gave their best, every year. Because we appreciated them, God blessed us and increased our exposure to others. Every year I would do a big write up with photographs of development and all this, I painted a picture – saying that Geylang people live in 1, 2-room flats and all that. And with Mr Chee, who was the ACJC principal, who was the Education Secretary for Methodist schools, we made an appointment to see Wee Shaw Meng, of the Shaw Foundation, and we’d go there and beg for money. But I was glad that I went the first time, and God blessed us with one million dollars. He told me ‘I will help you’. Then, at the end of the year, when Shaw foundation gave out money, I saw in the papers, over the news, Geylang Methodist Schools received one million dollars.

10. Was that why our hall was called Shaw hall?

Doreen Chan:

Yes.

I remember that.

Diana Ng:

It’s also important that the principal keeps a good rein over the financial situation of the school and makes sure that funds don’t just run away. So Mrs Chan did very well in that area, and she started the Mrs Chan gold medal. The gold medal for best O level student – we named it the Mrs E. S. Lau medal. It was during Mrs Chan’s time that she mooted the idea of rewarding the children.

11. Were there any significant events that happened nationally that affected schools?

Doreen Chan:

Once we were in the National Day Parade. The GB was in the National Day parade.

Diana Ng :

We had a swimmer, a national swimmer with us.

You know the old school had quite a number of Miss Universe Singapore? [laughs] In the all girls school. Our girls made headlines.

It was during Mrs Daniel’s time.

12. Were there any notable initiatives in your time in the school? For example, in sports, learning or educational technology?

Doreen Chan:

The thinking programme by Jenny Yong and Yan Hock was the new education officer in the Ministry of Education, working on this thinking programme with Ms Jenny Yong. We started with the sec 2s. Wilfred Chia was one of the ones in charge.

13. Let’s talk about IT for a little bit. When you were principal at the time, I think that was the start of IT initiatives in schools in Singapore. Can you remember anything about that?

Doreen Chan :

We set up a lab with 40 computers, and we got someone from outside to come and teach those who want to learn about the usage, and using emails. He came to teach students on Mondays and Thursdays – mornings for the PM students and afternoons for the AM students. So he charged $20 per head. He taught for a few years. Later on, Rahim went for a course, to teach this, and later he taught the sec 1s during school hours. We gave them computer knowledge. We managed to get 40 computers.

14. What about the teachers?

Doreen Chan:

Nothing. The teachers were not given laptops.

Diana Ng:

It started with OHPs – the maintenance can kill you. I went for a course on how to design good transparencies. I struggled in the course, and after that, we bought OHPs and assigned one for each classroom, and then we had an AV club, where every class had kids who could help out to set up, to do simple repairs like changing of bulbs. I had to look into the maintenance, and we had to coordinate workshops where they came in during the school holidays to do repairs.

The computer lab was just a room with computers. Before I left, in early 2000, then the teachers were already given laptops. We had screens, you could conduct lessons with the laptops.

15. How about the exam papers? How did the teachers set the exam papers?

Diana Ng:

You ever heard of the typewriter? First, you write the questions, and then you typed it in the typewriter using that special paper that was a carbon paper, and you typed on it, and you could eradicate with an eradicator, and then you tear out one sheet and it goes through the copying machine.

Doreen Chan:

You had to do all this after vetting the paper.

Diana Ng:

That was handwritten! Do you know how long it took?

It was very tedious and time-consuming. Those were the days. Where got photocopier?

16. Can you tell us about any memorable students?

Diana Ng:

Our students were very resourceful. Many of them become entrepreneurs. They may not take the academic route. I had one ex-student from the girls' school, who is now a lecturer at a university in the States. She came from a broken family, as did many of our students, but they picked themselves up with support and with their faith.

The first batch of boys was very memorable. We had many boys who excelled and did very well, and we also had a whole bunch of naughty boys. We had extremes. Some of them carried knives. They used to fight in the canteen, even punched the prefects!

Doreen Chan:

We used to punish the students when they created trouble. If you punched the prefect in the canteen, you would be punished there. If you carried a weapon, you would be punished when found. If you fought in the quadrangle, you would be caned there. Once you were caned, the matter was settled. You then start on a clean slate.

17. Can you tell us a little bit about the staff culture?

Diana Ng:

Very good, we were like a big family. We cooked, we ate together.

Doreen Chan:

When we expanded, we had to take in teachers. There were many who came in for interviews. It took time for us to figure out how they could contribute to the school and our needs. All of a sudden from a small school, to a big, so the staff increase was big. So I had to manage the pupils as well as the staff. So there was a lot of work, of thinking. Some came from different kinds of schools, different cultures, so they expected different things than from what we expected. There was a lot of work required to get to know them. That was important because once you got to know the teacher, they would work for you. So the rest is history. It’s the beginning that was very tough. Of course, some teachers had certain kinds of temperament, they clashed, and the principal had to be in between to resolve it, but in the end, all things worked out well. With much prayer, all things worked out well.

18. We’ve come to our last question, what achievements in GM in your time are you most proud of?

Doreen Chan:

Number one, that we were able to raise the funds that were needed, which was really important for a small school, to be able to raise 7 million. That was really an achievement. Everybody contributed. The kids did their best during Chinese New Year, and they brought back an ang bao to the school. Parents added money into it. That was really something you know and encouraged you to go on because you had support. Because fear was gripping you. In the end, we started many schemes – the Singathon, the Walkathon, funfairs… Every class would contribute a stall.

Diana Ng:

We had a takeover of the canteen for the day. Parents would bring food, and takings for the day would go into the school fund.

Doreen Chan:

That was the encouragement that we got, that there was no need to fear, as ‘I will provide’ as God said. God said, ‘If you work hard, I will provide you with the tools. I will provide.’ So we trusted God, and we worked, and we came up with a lot of schemes. The children made soft toys, the children made all kinds of balloons, painted pictures, and then they sold them during the one-day funfairs.

1. Thank you so much, that is the end of the interview. Just one last thing that we want to ask of you, and that is to say a few words of blessings or greetings or words of encouragement for our 95th Anniversary next year. So we will film Mrs Chan first, followed by Mrs Ng.

Doreen Chan:

On that day, I will wish that the school will continue to grow in friendship, in body and in mind. That the students who go through the portals of GMSS will always remember to bring along with them the motto, to live as they have lived in school, defending wherever they are, in wherever they are, and whatever job they are doing, that they will continue to grow in friendship with others around them, and they will continue to grow physically, slim sturdy, not fat, and that they will continue to grow in their mind, not only concentrate in the computer, but also concentrate on the prints, reading, to enlarge your minds, your thoughts and your feelings. And I wish the school all the very best, for the next 95 years. Those who come into the school will come out remembering that this is the place where they can be themselves. They can play, they can cry, they can laugh and they can study together. Thank you.

Diana Ng:

On your 95th Anniversary, I want to wish GM all the best, and hopefully, the staff and the pupils will bring with them the love they have enjoyed in the school environment, and go out and embrace their work and form new families and be successful in whatever they do. Thank you.